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Post by dulcinea on Jul 13, 2005 18:39:38 GMT -5
since my interest in some of the 'fun' threads has rather waned, i thought i set myself up to be shot down by proposing an outragous theory to debunk some popular or not so popular myths... no real knowledge required but the gumption to put a 'new' theory forward... and hopefully other targets will readily come forth - YES, UPSETTER, it may well be up your alley...
so here is my offering: wittgenstein is the most overrated 'philospher' of the last century - in my opinion not least because he found a home amongst the cambridge blue mythmakers [very fond of handsome, charismatic chaps with a germanic sounding name, reminiscent of nietsche or schopenhauer)... that was very clever.
however, his tradactus logicus, is an amazing cobbling together of thousands of pieces of paper - more or less arranged with what you might term a card index - by his 'heirs' and published post-humously [please note there are still about another 30,000 pieces of scrap paper which await attention and will undoubtedly keep academe industriously deployed for eons to produce another theory on behalf of herr von wittgenstein].
my recent contributions to a dictionary site/forum prompted me to come up with my theory: also the fact that i was shocked by reading the first point of the trad. in both languages and they don't tally.... but then languages are and art and not a science, although in german you can easily talk about language sciences. i believe herr von wittgenstein lost his grip on reality when dealing with the fantastic complexities of the impossibilities of translation which is entirely influcened by the perception of a brain modified by cultural biases. i reckon herr von wittgenstein got lost in this black hole between the two languages, realized what was going on and never published....
"Whereof one cannot speak, one must remain silent".. the zenith of his understanding is self-explanatory and suggests that he kept a grip on reality ... and did not speak... the last word had his disciples by publishing...
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Pooka
Islander
shell we dance?
Posts: 792
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Post by Pooka on Jul 14, 2005 22:51:46 GMT -5
... i believe herr von wittgenstein lost his grip on reality when dealing with the fantastic complexities of the impossibilities of translation which is entirely influcened by the perception of a brain modified by cultural biases. I had to say, I was mighty taken by this thought. I think cultural biases certainly do affect one's perception. And it takes a lot to 'undo' what's already been learned. Some people react, without really 'checking in' with their true gut instinct, to many situations in life. And how clouded and opaque these people are... so quick to react, and so dense in nature. It's not until after you realize what your biases are, whether cultural or societal (both psychological) that you begin to realize you can make your own judgments. Sadly, some are incapable of ever reaching that point.  |
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Post by dulcinea on Jul 16, 2005 20:26:45 GMT -5
hello pooka, i am glad that you found a thought worth holding onto in my debunking of ludwig's tractatus...
i had hoped that by now someone might be having a go at a spoof on diets, politics, celebrities, current beliefs, artists or whatever, unlike me putting forward original ideas.... probably my little attempt at doing something differnt was too poor and unfunny...
however, since i wrote this, i cannot rid myself of the thought that if i wrote down say 50,000 sensible sentences on assorted scraps of paper, a gaggle of philosophers with time on their hands might be able to arrange them into some brilliant opus... after all i might just be a step closer than the proverbial monkey with a typewriter...
ah well, with luck i will think up something better sometime...
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Pooka
Islander
shell we dance?
Posts: 792
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Post by Pooka on Jul 17, 2005 2:05:45 GMT -5
 Speak up, sonny... couldn't quite "see" you. hello pooka, i am glad that you found a thought worth holding onto in my debunking of ludwig's tractatus... It certainly spoke myriads when I read it, but whether or not I translated it correctly... well, it's my tiny brain we're dealing with. "Different" is actually a good thing, dulcinea. Spontaneity is the spice of life: do that which they least expect, and revel in their reaction.And I'm sure, nowadays, gaggles of philosophers would all have laptops, so it would be a lot easier to arrange 50,000 sensibly-stated 'scraps'. Better get to writing then. You're up to how many by now... 10,000 or so? |
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sea horse
Islander
There is a distant isle, Around which sea-horses glippin ...
Posts: 128
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Post by sea horse on Jul 21, 2005 8:07:11 GMT -5
i believe herr von wittgenstein lost his grip on reality when dealing with the fantastic complexities of the impossibilities of translation which is entirely influcened by the perception of a brain modified by cultural biases ... ... there are still about another 30,000 pieces of scrap paper which await attention ... "Whereof one cannot speak, one must remain silent" .. the zenith of his understanding is self-explanatory Surely part of W's ideas had to do with language and cultural bias - that there's no understanding without empathy and shared values (humour, moral values and taste generally). Isn't this why some miss irony or satire, some easily see offence or intrigue where unintended, or fall for propaganda, or talk beside each other? Not how W lost his grip. Is the quote from W quite so self-explanatory? Not if you look at current western society, which tends to allow everyone to make opinions about everything, irrespective of knowledge. Politicians, media commentators, bloggers and MB-ers. And to give everything a meaning and an interpretation, even if it doesn't need such fine, possibly one-sided, definition - this practice would probably make Wittgenstein turn in his grave. The same goes if he knew of the control and hedonist aspects in lifestyles nowadays, far from W's stoicism about fate and his ascetic approach to life. I wonder if he is popular in India. Maybe more worthy of debunking are politicians - it irks me to think that many people consider Churchill the 'Greatest Briton', itself a definition which would probably irk Wittgenstein. PS. I believe about a third of Joyce's Ulysses was written on scraps of paper that someone assembled for him into the book (some people will say, it shows), like a joint publication. |
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Post by dulcinea on Jul 21, 2005 20:00:07 GMT -5
Is the quote from W quite so self-explanatory? Not if you look at current western society, which tends to allow everyone to make opinions about everything, irrespective of knowledge. Politicians, media commentators, bloggers and MB-ers. And to give everything a meaning and an interpretation, even if it doesn't need such fine, possibly one-sided, definition - this practice would probably make wittgenstein turn in his grave. i feel suitably chastised for writing my preposterous piece out of boredom - preposterous, because i have not got the first grounding with regard to philosophy.... it was a grotesk exercise to do the very thing which you feel would make Wittgenstein turn in his grave ... in my ignorant naivitè i feel that really profound understanding of a complex problem would silence one perhaps just because this in itself would result in a demonstration of the inadequacy of language: silence... circumscription of such an insurmountable challenge would just not suffice... well, tony blair's britons voted marx the greatest philosopher of all times.... on this philosophical note i shall consider joining the diogenes school of protest and demonstrate by masturbating in public... rather than continuing with my poor contributions to mental masturbation on messageboards... i suppose i should apologize for trying to start what i might have termed a meatier 'fun' thread ... probably i am just on the wrong board, although i thought someone might pick up the baton and run with it in an imaginative way...
i shall now go in search of a cask to hide in or a barrel to scrape the bottom of.... |
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Post by Captain Nudnick on Jul 22, 2005 2:21:39 GMT -5
I am a Brit, but I am not Tony Blair's and would not have voted for Karl Marx had I voted at all... however I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that philosophers are a great disappointment. Expecting wisdom and enlightenment, all I find is silly one-upmanship, word-games and logic-chopping.
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sea horse
Islander
There is a distant isle, Around which sea-horses glippin ...
Posts: 128
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Post by sea horse on Jul 22, 2005 4:26:26 GMT -5
i thought someone might pick up the baton and run with it in an imaginative way... i shall now go in search of a ... barrel to scrape the bottom of.... Not a bad idea; you know the saying "The angels lurk in the dregs"? |
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sea horse
Islander
There is a distant isle, Around which sea-horses glippin ...
Posts: 128
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Post by sea horse on Jul 22, 2005 4:30:43 GMT -5
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that philosophers are a great disappointment. Expecting wisdom and enlightenment, all I find is silly one-upmanship, word-games and logic-chopping. I think this was more or less the same conclusion Wittgenstein came to. He wrote that the things that philosophers say are nonsense, because philosophy tries to answer questions and solve problems that are not really questions or problems at all, but nonsense. Nonsense begets nonsense. Probably why he never published another treatise. Which means ultimately, dulcinea and you are right! Twirl your batons!  |
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