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Post by Billy O Donnell on Jul 22, 2005 3:54:02 GMT -5
Did anyone hear the patronising tone adopted by Tim Franks on this morning’s Today programme apropos the feature about Karl Bartos and ‘Kraftwerk’? He uttered – with a very smug voice – ‘can’t say they push my buttons’.
I never cease to be amazed at how snooty some R4 presenters (also some of their commissioning editors and programme controllers) actually are and I wondered if any DI or QQR contributors have any theories as to why this should be? The recent interview conducted by Roger Bolton with Andrew Caspari on Feedback really did give a profound insight in the soul of R4. It was quite clear that they regard people who write to Feedback as complete nuisances and looneys who don’t know the first thing about the world of broadcasting. Well I’ve written to Feedback in the past and I’m certainly no looney (or is it loonie?).
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Post by Captain Nudnick on Jul 22, 2005 4:28:16 GMT -5
Did anyone hear the patronising tone adopted by Tim Franks on this morning’s Today programme apropos the feature about Karl Bartos and ‘Kraftwerk’? He uttered – with a very smug voice – ‘can’t say they push my buttons’. That sounds like nothing compared to the attitudes of the poltroons on, e.g., Radio One, to anything that isn't up-to-the-minute bash trash... and I can't say that Kraftwerk have ever rattled my chain either, although for some unknown reason I seem to have heard of them... the gods know how. Obviously Mr Franks is a sound type of chap  |
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Post by dulcinea on Jul 22, 2005 19:13:12 GMT -5
Did anyone hear the patronising tone adopted by Tim Franks on this morning’s Today programme apropos the feature about Karl Bartos and ‘Kraftwerk’? He uttered – with a very smug voice – ‘can’t say they push my buttons’. I never cease to be amazed at how snooty some R4 presenters (also some of their commissioning editors and programme controllers) actually are and I wondered if any DI or QQR contributors have any theories as to why this should be? The recent interview conducted by Roger Bolton with Andrew Caspari on Feedback really did give a profound insight in the soul of R4. It was quite clear that they regard people who write to Feedback as complete nuisances and looneys who don’t know the first thing about the world of broadcasting. Well I’ve written to Feedback in the past and I’m certainly no looney (or is it loonie?). i don't know where the idea of snooty comes from... to announce one's relationship to a topic seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do, when a particular standpoint might well colour the interview. at least you know where the guy is coming from and it might explain any involuntary faux pas which might occur when dealing with a subject one is not familiar with in the same way as if one were an enthusiast.... what a longwinded way to say what it wish to say.. wow... i never considered the soul of R4[/i]... perhaps The Reverend can give us today's Thought of the Day...  n.b. i have not heard either programme... this is just a general observation... |
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Post by Billy O Donnell on Jul 23, 2005 15:11:07 GMT -5
i don't know where the idea of snooty comes from... to announce one's relationship to a topic seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do, when a particular standpoint might well colour the interview. at least you know where the guy is coming from and it might explain any involuntary faux pas which might occur when dealing with a subject one is not familiar with in the same way as if one were an enthusiast.... what a longwinded way to say what it wish to say.. My apologies Dulcinea, I don’t think my posting was particularly clear. Tim Franks simply introduced the piece and made the remark after it finished. Why should the R4 listener care what one of the presenters thinks about the subject(s) of an interview? You can bet your bottom dollar he wouldn’t have made such a comment if the feature related to opera. R4, of course, believes that one can correlate intelligence with musical listening habits: classical and opera are intellectually superior to all other forms of music. One hears this kind of comment all the time on R4, Edward Stourton made such a quip (whilst hosting an edition of POTW) when he spoke about the music that his kids listen to. Brian Hanrahan made an exceptionally snide and patronising comment about Irish folk music when he hosted the annual R4 political review (several years ago) at the beginning of the year (the programme where all the R4 correspondents are asked for their new-year predictions). It’s high time R4 got rid of some of these men and women with such disturbing prejudices and selected presenters who don’t come from upper-class posh backgrounds and universities. I recall reading the biog. distributed by the BBC when Mark Damazer was appointed as the new controller – what a surprise to discover that he’s an opera lover! I’d like to see what would happen to the candidate applying for the position who described Steve Hillage’s ‘Gong’ as one of their favourite bands! [/i]... perhaps The Reverend can give us today's Thought of the Day...[/quote] Hee-hee-hee, I’ve spent hours and hours……and years thinking about the soul[/i] of R4! Oh yes, The Reverend Al Green is a good choice for Thought For The day……..followed by someone speaking about the thoughts of Moondog.  |
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Post by dulcinea on Jul 23, 2005 17:26:56 GMT -5
to be so discourteous to a guest is just plain rude, ill-mannered and unprofessional...
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Crusoe
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Post by Crusoe on Jul 27, 2005 7:11:03 GMT -5
An interesting quote from “The Unbearable Lightness of Being”:
“No one can get really drunk on a novel or a painting, but who can hep getting drunk on Beethoven’s Ninth, Bartók’s Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion or The Beatles’ White Album? Franz made no distinction between ‘classical’ music and ‘pop.’ He found the distinction old-fashioned and hypocritical. He loved rock as much as Mozart”
Franz’s view appeals to me but I fear that it never will to R4 presenters.
I find it very odd that the myth persists in many circles that listening to classical music is some sort of sign of being better educated or more cultured. I used to know a chap at University who insisted that he liked classical music and yet I never got the impression that he truly loved it and that he listened to it because he thought that that was what clever people are supposed to listen to. It was a great pity. The same thing often happens on DIDs, where people clearly choose records that they think will make people respect them.
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Post by Captain Nudnick on Jul 27, 2005 8:38:05 GMT -5
The inverted snobbery of all this is overwhelming... why the blazes shouldn't the controller of R4 enjoy opera? Very many people do.... And what do we mean by 'posh'? Making no distinction between 'classical' music and 'pop' is fodder for Pseud's Corner. For a start, you listen to 'classical' music, you only hear 'pop 'n' rock'. And they are not of equal artistic worth, any more than Tracy Emin and Michelangelo are of equal artistic worth.
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Crusoe
Islander
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Post by Crusoe on Jul 27, 2005 9:23:14 GMT -5
I disagree, Captain. It’s not inverse snobbery, since no-one is saying that classical music shouldn’t be enjoyed or that pop music is better than classical music. What is being questioned is the attitude to musical taste as a shibboleth.
Pop music and classical music are different: to try to compare one to the other is like comparing apples with pears. The distinctions between different types of music seems to be less of a problem for many performers than it is for many others. Wynton Marsallis seems happy to play in both “classical” and “jazz” contexts and Miles Davis played largely scored music with classical musicians as well as playing extended jams with rock musicians. A pieces of modern composition like Gavin Bryers’ “Jesus’ Blood Never Failed Me Yet” is based around a loop: a major component of many pop records. The Kronos Quartet seem to be happy playing music of virtually any style.
To my mind the distinction is artificial and there is too much snobbery in this area.
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Post by hear hear on Jul 27, 2005 9:48:45 GMT -5
Making no distinction between 'classical' music and 'pop' is fodder for Pseud's Corner. For a start, you listen to 'classical' music, you only hear 'pop 'n' rock'. And they are not of equal artistic worth, any more than Tracy Emin and Michelangelo are of equal artistic worth. ''the proof of the pudding is in the eating''?  But, I don't know what difference it makes what R4 staff listen to - it is not primarily a music station. If the Radio One controller didn't like current youth trends, it would be relevant. So, the R4 controller likes posh - does it matter. Desert Island Discs is a chat show, not a music show. We'll be criticising the band's choice of guest introduction music on Parkinson soon! |
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Crusoe
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Post by Crusoe on Jul 27, 2005 9:55:56 GMT -5
True, but we’re talking about a news programme and the BBC’s news coverage is supposed to be impartial. If it was an arts review programme then the reviewer would be expected to say whether they liked something and why they liked or disliked it. This was a piece of sneering that added nothing to the programme and is representative of an outdated (albeit relatively harmless) prejudice.
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Post by where where on Jul 27, 2005 10:02:23 GMT -5
True, but we’re talking about a news programme and the BBC’s news coverage is supposed to be impartial. If it was an arts review programme then the reviewer would be expected to say whether they liked something and why they liked or disliked it. This was a piece of sneering that added nothing to the programme and is representative of an outdated (albeit relatively harmless) prejudice. Oh, in that case I agree it's outrageous!sorry, I thought it was about something else...I thought I saw Sue Lawley's name.... TAXI.  |
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Post by There there on Jul 27, 2005 10:06:27 GMT -5
it's outrageous!...I thought I saw Sue Lawley's name.... Now that would be outrageous. ;D |
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Post by Captain Nudnick on Jul 28, 2005 1:14:12 GMT -5
I disagree, Captain. It’s not inverse snobbery, since no-one is saying that classical music shouldn’t be enjoyed or that pop music is better than classical music. What is being questioned is the attitude to musical taste as a shibboleth. "It’s high time R4 got rid of some of these men and women with such disturbing prejudices and selected presenters who don’t come from upper-class posh backgrounds and universities. I recall reading the biog. distributed by the BBC when Mark Damazer was appointed as the new controller – what a surprise to discover that he’s an opera lover!" I think that was what set off my rant...! |
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Post by Billy O Donnell on Jul 29, 2005 15:06:57 GMT -5
That sounds like nothing compared to the attitudes of the poltroons on, e.g., Radio One, to anything that isn't up-to-the-minute bash trash... and I can't say that Kraftwerk have ever rattled my chain either, although for some unknown reason I seem to have heard of them... the gods know how. Obviously Mr Franks is a sound type of chap Captain, I can recommend Dave Pearce’s ‘Dance Anthems’ on R1 (Sunday night) R4 isn't too hot for most of Sunday, so you’ve got nothing to lose! |
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Post by moonbeam on Jul 29, 2005 19:23:33 GMT -5
;D
I'd pay money to see the look on Captain's face.
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